‘If He Wants to Die, He’s Going to Die Here’

EXCLUSIVE: Just hours before his death, CIA agent Mike Spann interviewed John Walker, the American Taliban. Here is an excerpt from that videotaped interview

By Colin Soloway
NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE

Dec. 6 — Last week, just hours before Taliban and Al Qaeda prisoners began their uprising at the Northern Afghan fortress of Kala Jangi, CIA agents interviewed John Walker, the 20-year-old American from northern California, NEWSWEEK has learned. The interrogation, which took place shortly before one of the agents was killed, was videotaped by an Afghan cameraman.

THE TAPE REPRESENTS the first evidence that the CIA knew that there was an American, or at least a Westerner among the hundreds of prisoners. It also demonstrates that Walker came into contact with the U.S. agents; last week, he told NEWSWEEK that he had only “seen” the two agents.

On the tape, which was reviewed by NEWSWEEK this week, it is a bright Sunday morning in Kala Jangi. Dozens of prisoners have been taken out of the prison and placed outside, near the center of the compound. Waiting for them are the Americans, Johnny “Mike” Spann, and another CIA agent known only as Dave. Spann is wearing blue jeans and a black jumper. A Kalashnikov is strapped across his back. Dave is dressed in a black tunic that reaches below his knees, with tan trousers beneath.

Tale of an American Taliban

CIA agent Johnny "Mike" Spann in an undated family photo

Early in the tape Dave is seen interrogating a Kyrgyzstani prisoner in Russian. Then, Walker, known inside the prison by his Muslim name, Abdul Hamid, is brought over to a blanket covering bare earth. His elbows are tied behind his back. He is pushed down and kneels on the blanket, his head bowed, his long hair obscuring his face. He is wearing loose black trousers and a black tunic that reaches to his calves.

Here is an excerpt from the videotaped interrogation:

An Afghan Voice: What do you speak? Irish, Pakistani?

No response. Spann squats down on the edge of the blanket, facing Walker.

Spann: What’s your name? Hey. [He snaps his fingers twice in front of Walker’s face. Walker is unresponsive]

Spann: Who brought you here? Wake up! Who brought you here? How did you get here? Hello?

Later, Dave walks up. Spann and Dave speak to one another, within a few feet of Walker, loudly enough for the prisoner to hear them.

German television image of the CIA agent identified as "Dave"

Spann [to Dave]: I explained to him what the deal is.

Spann [to Walker]: It’s up to you.

Dave [to Spann]: The problem is, he’s got to decide if he wants to live or die. If he wants to die, he’s going to die here. Or he’s going to f—cking spend the rest of his short f—cking life in prison. It’s his decision, man. We can only help the guys who want to talk to us. We can only get the Red Cross to help so many guys.

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Later ...

Spann [to Walker]: They [the Sept. 11 hijackers] killed other Muslims. There were several hundred other Muslims killed in the bombing. Are you going to talk to us?

Walker does not respond

Dave [to Spann]: This guy got his chance. He got his chance.

Spann and Dave stand and talk to each other. Both look frustrated. Spann stands with his hands on his hips, and Dave kicks up some dust with his boot. Spann kneels on the blanket and takes aim with a digital camera.

Spann [to Walker]: Push your hair back. Push your hair back.

An Afghan soldier pulls Walker’s hair back and holds his head up for the picture. Walker is then pulled to his feet by an Afghan guard, and taken back to the group of prisoners sitting on the earth in the compound.

Shortly after this footage was shot, prisoners emerging from the fortress, rushed the guards, throwing grenades and grabbing their captors’ rifles. It was the beginning of the battle of Kala Jangi. Spann was killed in the early stages of the uprising, and Dave reportedly was extracted from the compound by U.S. and British special forces.